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		<title>Comment on Bio by bibomedia</title>
		<link>http://lucy23.wordpress.com/about/#comment-178</link>
		<dc:creator>bibomedia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Mormonism 101 by Ron H</title>
		<link>http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-161</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 08:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-161</guid>
		<description>Lucy,
I stand corrected.  I was wrong by saying that the Book of Mormon mentioned &quot;Lucifer&quot; several times.  Indeed, I can only find one instance.  Once, however, is enough to raise questions for me.

The name Lucifer (not *really* just another name for Satan) does not appear in the Hebrew texts of Isaiah, a mistranslation spread by the KJV, and popularized by Milton.  

Some information on this topic with specific regard to Mormon belief can be found here...
http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml
To me, this raises credibility issues for the Book of Mormon, and consequently, the doctrines following it.

Concerning the existence of Satan:
Duality (good vs evil, light vs dark) was not present in western cultures until influenced by the east (china, india, etc).  Not even the Hebrews of the Old Testament taught of a supernatural creature that defies God&#039;s will.  Modern Jews have no such belief either.

Anyhow, I won&#039;t bore you with research any longer.  Best of luck in your search for the truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lucy,<br />
I stand corrected.  I was wrong by saying that the Book of Mormon mentioned &#8220;Lucifer&#8221; several times.  Indeed, I can only find one instance.  Once, however, is enough to raise questions for me.</p>
<p>The name Lucifer (not *really* just another name for Satan) does not appear in the Hebrew texts of Isaiah, a mistranslation spread by the KJV, and popularized by Milton.  </p>
<p>Some information on this topic with specific regard to Mormon belief can be found here&#8230;<br />
<a href="http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml</a><br />
To me, this raises credibility issues for the Book of Mormon, and consequently, the doctrines following it.</p>
<p>Concerning the existence of Satan:<br />
Duality (good vs evil, light vs dark) was not present in western cultures until influenced by the east (china, india, etc).  Not even the Hebrews of the Old Testament taught of a supernatural creature that defies God&#8217;s will.  Modern Jews have no such belief either.</p>
<p>Anyhow, I won&#8217;t bore you with research any longer.  Best of luck in your search for the truth.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mormonism 101 by lucy23</title>
		<link>http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator>lucy23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-160</guid>
		<description>Sorry for taking so long to reply, I&#039;ve been busy with family at home :)

Ron, you are mistaken, the Book of Mormon does not make frequent mention of Lucifer. In fact there is only one reference to Satan as Lucifer in the Book of Mormon. It&#039;s just another name for Satan. As for your research, your questions about the Bible are interesting, I&#039;ll have to do some research to give you a better response, but for now here is this link for the LDS Bible Dictionary&#039;s definition of Satan:

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/d/35

You&#039;ll notice that the definition recognizes the Hebrew and Greek meanings of the word. I think that while you are right the word Satan does mean other things, that doesn&#039;t mean Satan doesn&#039;t exist. All names have meanings, and the meaning behind the name Satan seems to match his purpose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for taking so long to reply, I&#8217;ve been busy with family at home <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Ron, you are mistaken, the Book of Mormon does not make frequent mention of Lucifer. In fact there is only one reference to Satan as Lucifer in the Book of Mormon. It&#8217;s just another name for Satan. As for your research, your questions about the Bible are interesting, I&#8217;ll have to do some research to give you a better response, but for now here is this link for the LDS Bible Dictionary&#8217;s definition of Satan:</p>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/d/35" rel="nofollow">http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/d/35</a></p>
<p>You&#8217;ll notice that the definition recognizes the Hebrew and Greek meanings of the word. I think that while you are right the word Satan does mean other things, that doesn&#8217;t mean Satan doesn&#8217;t exist. All names have meanings, and the meaning behind the name Satan seems to match his purpose.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mormonism 101 by Ron H</title>
		<link>http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-154</guid>
		<description>Man, I really botched that link.

http://sanscolour.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/who-made-the-devil/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man, I really botched that link.</p>
<p><a href="http://sanscolour.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/who-made-the-devil/" rel="nofollow">http://sanscolour.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/who-made-the-devil/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Mormonism 101 by Ron H</title>
		<link>http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-153</guid>
		<description>Lucy,
My apologies for taking so long to respond here.  School is quite a vexing tax (FINALS!!!  And soon, holiday...)

I&#039;ll put my cards out up front to make this a bit easier.

I&#039;m an atheist (though I was raised Christian) with a solid literary appreciation with the Bible.  Most of what I know about the Book of Mormon is through rumor.  Most recently, I have researched the topic of Lucifer, and the essential non-existence of that character as we know it today (Shameless link to my own Blog post &lt;a href=&quot;http://sanscolour.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/who-made-the-devil/&quot; title=&quot;HERE&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;.)  While I am not a religious individual myself, I do sincerely respect the beliefs of others.  

In the research paper, I submit a foundation of evidence that supports the need for further research concerning the idea that the Lucifer character is unfounded from a Biblical standpoint.

Here comes the real meat of my question to you... 

How does the possible exclusion of Lucifer as a legitimate and proven character affect the Book of Mormon?  As I understand it, the Book of Mormon makes frequent mention of Lucifer.  If my research were found to be fact, and Lucifer is indeed a fabrication of the last 1500 years, then the Book of Mormon could have serious integrity problems.  As it stands, nothing in the canonical Bible is affected, save for Isaiah 14:12, which is translated properly in most every modern translation.

Again, this is not an attack on your faith.  My research is only that, and not proven fact.  I am merely seeking your opinion as a member of the Mormon faith.

I do intend to research the topic myself after finals (I wouldn&#039;t want you to think I&#039;m woefully lazy, though I am).

Thank you for your time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lucy,<br />
My apologies for taking so long to respond here.  School is quite a vexing tax (FINALS!!!  And soon, holiday&#8230;)</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll put my cards out up front to make this a bit easier.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m an atheist (though I was raised Christian) with a solid literary appreciation with the Bible.  Most of what I know about the Book of Mormon is through rumor.  Most recently, I have researched the topic of Lucifer, and the essential non-existence of that character as we know it today (Shameless link to my own Blog post <a href="http://sanscolour.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/who-made-the-devil/" title="HERE" rel="nofollow">.)  While I am not a religious individual myself, I do sincerely respect the beliefs of others.  </p>
<p>In the research paper, I submit a foundation of evidence that supports the need for further research concerning the idea that the Lucifer character is unfounded from a Biblical standpoint.</p>
<p>Here comes the real meat of my question to you&#8230; </p>
<p>How does the possible exclusion of Lucifer as a legitimate and proven character affect the Book of Mormon?  As I understand it, the Book of Mormon makes frequent mention of Lucifer.  If my research were found to be fact, and Lucifer is indeed a fabrication of the last 1500 years, then the Book of Mormon could have serious integrity problems.  As it stands, nothing in the canonical Bible is affected, save for Isaiah 14:12, which is translated properly in most every modern translation.</p>
<p>Again, this is not an attack on your faith.  My research is only that, and not proven fact.  I am merely seeking your opinion as a member of the Mormon faith.</p>
<p>I do intend to research the topic myself after finals (I wouldn&#8217;t want you to think I&#8217;m woefully lazy, though I am).</p>
<p>Thank you for your time.</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Mormonism 101 by lucy23</title>
		<link>http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator>lucy23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-149</guid>
		<description>Yes my church says that Christ and Lucifer were brothers, but what is left out is that we believe that we are all spirit children of our Heavenly Father. Christ is everyone’s older brother. He and Satan are not literally brothers like my brothers are to eachother. We believe that Christ was the only begotten of the Father too, God is literally the father of Christ. He was not the literal father of Satan because Satan never got a body and he wouldn’t have been in that case. 

Regarding Mary’s conception, you are confused about our doctrine. “He shall be born of Mary, … she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God” That is what we believe, just like you. 

As for the Trinity, the Trinity is a belief that many Christian churches hold, but that doesn’t mean that it is necessary for someone to believe in the trinity to be Christian. The concept of the trinity comes from the Council of Nicea, it was something that a bunch of men voted for. I think that revelation comes by other means and not by man voting upon what is and what is not doctrine.  I may not be a “Nicean” but I am a Christian. 

The concept of the Trinity is not in the Bible. We believe that the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost are three distinct beings who are one in purpose. But we believe in all three. 

As for progressing to become Gods, ya it’s a difference in theology, we believe we can progress and become Gods. We believe we will continue to grow after this life. How does that make us un Christian? I believe that Christ is a divine being. Our belief that we can continue to progress in no way belittles Christ’s role. Without the atonement we would not be able to repent and return to live with our Heavenly Father.

To be a Christian church a church must teach of Christ. They must believe in him and that’s what my church does. Yes we believe different doctrinal things, but that makes us “not Catholic” or “not Protestant” Our belief in Christ is what makes us Christian

Throughout your comment you mention “biblically founded churches” and you define that as a church which does not believe in additional testaments. Joseph Smith was reading in the Bible, in James more specifically, he read “if any of ye lack wisdom, let him ask of God” This was when there were many different churches popping up on the East coast of the US, Joseph wasn’t sure which church to join, so he prayed about it. His answer was that none of them were right. That he was to bring back the true church which had been lost by apostasy. 

Our doctrine is found in the bible. Yes we have the additional testament of Christ. But how does that falsify our belief in the Bible? The principles of the  LDS church are founded within the Bible. The Book of Mormon is another testament of Christ. If, as my church believes, Christ came to the Americas and taught the people there and visited them, would that somehow change the Bible? Christ didn’t teach the people in the America’s different things, he taught them the same concepts. 

So for example the principle of baptism: Christ was baptized by John the Baptist. He taught that it was necessary for salvation. In the Book of Mormon when he comes to the Americas he teaches them that same principle of baptism. Christ wanted the people in the Americas to know the truth too. 

The doctrine of my church is found in the Bible, it is also found in the Book of Mormon. And some our doctrine comes from continuing revelation. We believe God continues to talk to a prophet today to give us council. 

I ask you to find something in the Book of Mormon that you do not believe. A principle found in there, a direct quote that is contrary to the teachings in the Bible. I don’t think you’ll find one. The principles you attack from my faith are found in the Bible, they are our interpretations of the Bible. Which is how all Christian churches differ, it comes from the different interpretations of the Bible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes my church says that Christ and Lucifer were brothers, but what is left out is that we believe that we are all spirit children of our Heavenly Father. Christ is everyone’s older brother. He and Satan are not literally brothers like my brothers are to eachother. We believe that Christ was the only begotten of the Father too, God is literally the father of Christ. He was not the literal father of Satan because Satan never got a body and he wouldn’t have been in that case. </p>
<p>Regarding Mary’s conception, you are confused about our doctrine. “He shall be born of Mary, … she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God” That is what we believe, just like you. </p>
<p>As for the Trinity, the Trinity is a belief that many Christian churches hold, but that doesn’t mean that it is necessary for someone to believe in the trinity to be Christian. The concept of the trinity comes from the Council of Nicea, it was something that a bunch of men voted for. I think that revelation comes by other means and not by man voting upon what is and what is not doctrine.  I may not be a “Nicean” but I am a Christian. </p>
<p>The concept of the Trinity is not in the Bible. We believe that the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost are three distinct beings who are one in purpose. But we believe in all three. </p>
<p>As for progressing to become Gods, ya it’s a difference in theology, we believe we can progress and become Gods. We believe we will continue to grow after this life. How does that make us un Christian? I believe that Christ is a divine being. Our belief that we can continue to progress in no way belittles Christ’s role. Without the atonement we would not be able to repent and return to live with our Heavenly Father.</p>
<p>To be a Christian church a church must teach of Christ. They must believe in him and that’s what my church does. Yes we believe different doctrinal things, but that makes us “not Catholic” or “not Protestant” Our belief in Christ is what makes us Christian</p>
<p>Throughout your comment you mention “biblically founded churches” and you define that as a church which does not believe in additional testaments. Joseph Smith was reading in the Bible, in James more specifically, he read “if any of ye lack wisdom, let him ask of God” This was when there were many different churches popping up on the East coast of the US, Joseph wasn’t sure which church to join, so he prayed about it. His answer was that none of them were right. That he was to bring back the true church which had been lost by apostasy. </p>
<p>Our doctrine is found in the bible. Yes we have the additional testament of Christ. But how does that falsify our belief in the Bible? The principles of the  LDS church are founded within the Bible. The Book of Mormon is another testament of Christ. If, as my church believes, Christ came to the Americas and taught the people there and visited them, would that somehow change the Bible? Christ didn’t teach the people in the America’s different things, he taught them the same concepts. </p>
<p>So for example the principle of baptism: Christ was baptized by John the Baptist. He taught that it was necessary for salvation. In the Book of Mormon when he comes to the Americas he teaches them that same principle of baptism. Christ wanted the people in the Americas to know the truth too. </p>
<p>The doctrine of my church is found in the Bible, it is also found in the Book of Mormon. And some our doctrine comes from continuing revelation. We believe God continues to talk to a prophet today to give us council. </p>
<p>I ask you to find something in the Book of Mormon that you do not believe. A principle found in there, a direct quote that is contrary to the teachings in the Bible. I don’t think you’ll find one. The principles you attack from my faith are found in the Bible, they are our interpretations of the Bible. Which is how all Christian churches differ, it comes from the different interpretations of the Bible.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mormonism 101 by TiffanyMae</title>
		<link>http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator>TiffanyMae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-148</guid>
		<description>Yes the LDS church uses Christ in its name, and yes your meetings and classes are centered around him, but your Jesus Christ is different than the Christ of a Biblically founded Christian church (as in only the Bible, not additional testaments).  Mormon doctrine teaches that Lucifer and Jesus were brothers and God chose Jesus as the Savior of our world.  Bible believing Christian churches believe that Jesus was the one and only son of God and that Jesus created Satan so therefore they could not be brothers.   

The LDS church believes that as man now is, God once was and as God now is man may be.  Bible believing Christian churches do not believe or teach this.  We believe that God was always God and that he is never changing, therefore there  is not progression.  We also believe that when man dies he does not have the chance to become like God, that kind of thinking is what got Lucifer kicked out of Heaven.  We believe that we will spend eternity with our God worshiping Him.

The LDS church also teaches that Mary was impregnated by God himself, not by the act of the Holy Ghost passing over her, which is what we believe.  We also believe in the Trinity which you&#039;ve already said the LDS church does not believe in and the Trinity is one of the most important beliefs in the Christian church.  

These are some very important beliefs of Bible believing Christian churches (once again I mean only the Bible not additional testaments) and Mormon doctrine just does not agree with them.  You may argue that there are different denominations within Christianity which don&#039;t believe the same.  Yes that is true to a point, but the basic foundations of Christian churches from different denominations, such as those I have mentioned are the same, and to be considered a Christian church you must believe in them as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes the LDS church uses Christ in its name, and yes your meetings and classes are centered around him, but your Jesus Christ is different than the Christ of a Biblically founded Christian church (as in only the Bible, not additional testaments).  Mormon doctrine teaches that Lucifer and Jesus were brothers and God chose Jesus as the Savior of our world.  Bible believing Christian churches believe that Jesus was the one and only son of God and that Jesus created Satan so therefore they could not be brothers.   </p>
<p>The LDS church believes that as man now is, God once was and as God now is man may be.  Bible believing Christian churches do not believe or teach this.  We believe that God was always God and that he is never changing, therefore there  is not progression.  We also believe that when man dies he does not have the chance to become like God, that kind of thinking is what got Lucifer kicked out of Heaven.  We believe that we will spend eternity with our God worshiping Him.</p>
<p>The LDS church also teaches that Mary was impregnated by God himself, not by the act of the Holy Ghost passing over her, which is what we believe.  We also believe in the Trinity which you&#8217;ve already said the LDS church does not believe in and the Trinity is one of the most important beliefs in the Christian church.  </p>
<p>These are some very important beliefs of Bible believing Christian churches (once again I mean only the Bible not additional testaments) and Mormon doctrine just does not agree with them.  You may argue that there are different denominations within Christianity which don&#8217;t believe the same.  Yes that is true to a point, but the basic foundations of Christian churches from different denominations, such as those I have mentioned are the same, and to be considered a Christian church you must believe in them as well.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mormonism 101 by lucy23</title>
		<link>http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-147</link>
		<dc:creator>lucy23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 00:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-147</guid>
		<description>Haha, funny enough Mitt Romney is one of the few Republican candidates who has only been married once.
Guliani and McCain have both had multiple wives</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha, funny enough Mitt Romney is one of the few Republican candidates who has only been married once.<br />
Guliani and McCain have both had multiple wives</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mormonism 101 by Maroni123</title>
		<link>http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-146</link>
		<dc:creator>Maroni123</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 23:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-146</guid>
		<description>If elected as President, which of Romney&#039;s fifteen Mormon wives will serve as &#039;first lady&#039;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If elected as President, which of Romney&#8217;s fifteen Mormon wives will serve as &#8216;first lady&#8217;?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mormonism 101 by lucy23</title>
		<link>http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-145</link>
		<dc:creator>lucy23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 20:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucy23.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/mormonism-101/#comment-145</guid>
		<description>And as for MItt Romney, I agree that his faith should not be the deciding factor in his candidacy. My point is that exactly. I am looking at him for more than just his religion. I am not sure how I feel about his foreign policy, but I am a fan of his financial policies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And as for MItt Romney, I agree that his faith should not be the deciding factor in his candidacy. My point is that exactly. I am looking at him for more than just his religion. I am not sure how I feel about his foreign policy, but I am a fan of his financial policies.</p>
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